My Experiences at RCC Institute of Technology (Private vs. Public Education)
I started my post secondary studies at a small relatively unknown private college called RCC Institute of Technology (formerly known as Radio College of Canada or RCC) in Concord Ontario Canada - RCC is now affiliated with Yorkville University (an institute that’s not really a University, read more). RCC’s heavy recruitment campaigns and constant presence at my high school gave them a high profile with most of the high school students, which in turn gave me an inaccurate perception as to where their institute sat in the industry - RCC came to our remote high schools, as students we thought they were a major educational powerhouse in the technology world. In addition to this, their enticing selling point was the ability to finish the equivalent of 3 year College Diploma in a single year - as high school students, we all saw this as a great opportunity as none of us really liked school at the time.
You mean I can go to school for a single year, save time and money by skipping the extra 2 years, pop out as a professional, start my career, and start making money?
Needless to say it was a hard lesson of “if it’s too good to be true, it probably is”. In my last year of high school I inquired about RCC, a recruiter promptly replied, and even came to my house where he discussed all the positive benefits RCC had to offer. My parents were sold, I was sold, I wanted to go - I was 18 years old, I was naive, like taking candy from a child, I was easily sold. I didn’t tour the facilities; I didn’t question the financial implications. Instead I signed on the dotted lines (signed a contract), filled out an application for a government loan, and eagerly anticipated disembarking into post secondary studies.
My first week at RCC was a rude awakening. When I attended, the facilities were substandard, the equipment outdated, the computers were yellowed with age, the keyboards missing keys, the CRTs monitors flickering with monochromatic colors, and the carpet peeling away from the walls. The cafeteria was a retrofitted truck garage complete with an overhead crane for removing truck engines or something. I distinctly remember their lobby near the entrance adorned with leather sofas and leather chairs, but all the new students quickly learned that these props were strictly for visiting guests - no students allowed. This wasn’t what I expected; this wasn’t what I signed up for.
Every day on my way to RCC I would ride past the local Community College (Seneca College of Applied Arts & Technology) - my bicycle was my main form of transportation. I would stare through the windows of Seneca. I remember being impressed by the sheer size of the school, the architecture, the cutting edge equipment, state of the art computers, a library, a fitness facility, a large cafeteria with a diverse selection of food, a couple thousand students - all of which RCC lacked. I assumed the cost for attending this school would be astronomical, but decided to ask anyway.
My conversation with the registration clerk went something like this:
Me: “I’m interested in attending Seneca College, how much does it cost?”
The clerk replied: “$1200 per semester”
I nearly choked, RCC was bleeding my wallet. I was paying nearly $4000 per semester compared to $1200 at Seneca - a semester at RCC was about 3 months, a semester at Seneca was 4 months.
I asked: “I’m attending RCC will I be able to transfer any of my credits?”
The clerk: “Where is RCC?”
I scratched my head thinking: “How could anyone not know about RCC? It’s the pinnacle of technological education, right? “
I replied: “It’s around the corner, a 5 minute bus ride from here”
The clerk: “Nope… I’ve never heard of RCC, but here’s some information on Seneca’s transfer policies, and a course catalog”
I then climbed back on my bike and continued to RCC.
Later that week I began doing some calculations where I realized the following:
A year at RCC would cost me about $16,000 dollars, this didn’t include cost of living, or housing expenses, and certainly did not include any part-time jobs since RCC’s rigorous schedule required that you catch up on your studies over the weekend. In total, a year at RCC would cost me about $23,000 dollars. Conversely a year at Seneca would cost me about $9,000 dollars (including living expenses), I figured that 3 years at Seneca would cost me somewhere around $27,000, but I’d have the ability to work part-time throughout each of those years, which would bring the overall total well below RCC’s single year program. So a single year at RCC (a private College) was roughly equivalent to 3 years at Seneca College (or any publicly funded Community College for that mater). This really got me thinking, and made me wish I had done more research before signing up for RCC - financially Community College was a much better deal.
I continued to compare RCC and Seneca, and to my horror I discovered that the RCC program only awarded a Certificate whereas Seneca awarded an Ontario College Diploma - now professionally and financially Community College was a far better deal. At this point I was convinced that RCC was probably not in my best interest, and decided to make the switch.
Back at RCC I notified the Registrar of my intentions to quit, attended a counseling session (where I was strongly advised not to quit and given the opportunity to switch programs), and was then informed that I would be have to pay 10% ($1,600) of the full years tuition ($16,000) for quitting. RCC had a dropping out fee!!! My jaw dropped, I was furious (and still evidently am, since I’m spending the time to write this entry), for a brief moment I considered staying with RCC to avoid paying this fee - I was only 18, money was tight, I was a poor student. I then asked for some confirmation for this fee. The Clerk then produced the document I had signed upon enrolling, and there it was under the dotted lines - the contract I had signed when the recruiter came to my house. I paid the fee and left.
Words of advice: “if it’s too good to be true, it probably is” Publicly funded post secondary studies are the way to go whether it be College or University. Private education is almost always more expensive, and probably not as valuable for a professional career (although some private polytechnic schools are pretty good too). In my opinion, fast track programs should be avoided, because you can’t really compress education. Most of the learning experience is developing your own ideas, opinions, honing your learning skills, maturing, and gaining life experiences. In addition compressed Diplomas or Certificates are not received as well in the real world some employers will interpret it as a sign that you aren’t really dedicated to your profession - they may conclude that you like taking the easy route.
Many of my RCC friends that completed the single year certificate at RCC have fought for jobs related to their education since graduation. A couple friends have pursued additional certification, many have settled for jobs completely out of their field of study, and almost all are still paying their RCC student loans.
Before you sign on the dotted line, know what you’re signing for - a lesson learned the hard way.
Hello, Adam.
It was interesting to read your post about RCC Institute of Technology. While many of your reactions to the school are accurate, others are misrepresentational or inaccurate.
Let me start by introducing myself. My name is Greg Toombs. I attended RCC, starting with the technician program in the fall of 2003, then the technologist program in the fall of 2004, and then the Bachelor of Technology program in the spring of 2005. After graduating in December 2005, I picked up a job at Research In Motion as an NPI RF technician. In short, I was debugging and analyzing prototypical cell phones still in developmental phases. I worked there for a year, then did some independent consultation, and am now pursuing a Master’s of Science in Control Systems Engineering at Lakehead University.
Firstly, RCC does not, and has never, advertised that one can finish the equivalent of a 3-year College Diploma in a single year. Three-year college diplomas to which you refer are typically technologist diplomas, and the technologist diploma at RCC does not take one year to finish. It used to take one and a half years when I was there; now it’s increased to two years (if I remember correctly).
Your depiction of the facilities is slightly sensational. There were no rules prohibiting students from hanging out in the lobby. None of the computers that I used while I was there were outdated enough to be inadequate for use. In fact, I was hired to help with computer upgrades in the labs, so I know that the school regularly updated its technology, and I always found that the tech department was diligent in their maintenance effort. It’s somewhat naive to presuppose that a high-quality lab facility is a perfect one. Students tend to remove keys and damage equipment no matter what school they’re at. Also, had you actually attended the program, you would know that electronic fundamentals and their associated test equipment (oscilloscopes, function generators, etc.) rarely need to be upgraded, as fundamental concepts in electronics and electrical engineering never change.
Note that, although in previous years students did not have time for part-time jobs, the new course model has allowed for half-day study that does indeed facilitate part-time work.
Your statement that RCC awards a certificate and not a diploma is wrong. RCC has fully OACETT- and CTAB-certified diplomas, and now also issues a degree as a Bachelor of Technology. I really don’t know where you got this idea.
You’re right about the cost and the lack of student support facilities such as recreation, though. I would strongly reconsider attending now, if only based on the amount that the price has increased since I attended.
That being said, your words of advice that private colleges and universities aren’t very valuable for a professional career don’t really resonate with me. You say that many of your friends struggled to find jobs after graduation from RCC. I say that RCC has a career centre that’s second-to-none, and the staff there go out of their way more so than any other institution that I’ve seen to prepare you for the job search, provide resume critiquing and building, provide professional networking and lead services, and administer effective classes on cold-calling and the general workplace. While I was there, the resident career counsellor actually issued a challenge: If, after 100 cold calls, a student did not get a job, this counsellor would perform the rest of the student’s job search in its entirety. Understand that the reason he was never taken up on this challenge is that RCC goes out of its way to prepare its students for the workplace and for the job search, and RCC has a very good reputation in industry.
I also take issue with your idea that one can’t really condense three years of education in a single year. First of all - You don’t have to. Three years are condensed into one and a half, and now two, years - not one year. Second of all, I find that your own ideas, opinions, skills, maturing, and gaining life experiences are better developed in the workplace than in school. What better way to learn about the real world than to work in the real world? To this end, the more compressed your program, the sooner you can enter the workplace, which is when an entirely different type of learning begins.
Had you attended the program and undertaken an earnest job search, you would have found that there is not much truth in the idea that shorter courses are perceived by industry as exhibiting a lack of dedication or thoroughness. On the contrary, companies in industry realize that attending a highly compressed program requires more personal sacrifice, which demonstrates more dedication.
The recent increases in tuition are unfortunate, and would conceivably prevent me from attending now due to simple economics. But I stand by my education and the education of all of the RCC alumni, and I am proud to have attended a unique school whose preparation for the workplace is effective.
Greg,
Thanks for the lengthy response; it offers a great balance to my initial post. I attended RCC almost a decade ago, there is a good chance that things have changed over the years. For myself, dropping out of RCC was the best decision I’ve ever made. I don’t recommend RCC, but that’s my opinion.
It’s also great that you got a related job upon graduation; unfortunately many RCC grads don’t get a job related to their field of study. Let me emphasize this further, RCC graduates do get jobs, however these jobs are often unrelated or equivalent to what a high school graduate can get.
In response to your call out:
What I was trying to say was that: RCC programs awarded Certificates whereas publicly funded Colleges in Ontario (like Seneca) award Ontario College Diplomas (OCDs) - RCC awards a certificate not an Ontario College Diplomas (not a Diploma).
To clarify this further: the definition of a diploma subsumes certificate and deed - a certificate or deed can be categorized as a diploma, but an RCC certificate / diploma / deed is not a recognized Ontario College Diploma - please correct me if I’m wrong. According to the CCTT website, CTAB accredited programs only grant certifications - not diplomas. The term certificate and certification is also used on OACETT website.
Bachelor of Technology degrees are an entirely new can of worms - it’s a new degree offered by most Colleges, it is not equivalent to a University degree, and will take some time for industry to embrace. After searching for bachelor of science on a Monster I get over 200 results, a search for bachelor of technology returns ZERO results. There are exceptions to every case, but job boards provide a pretty good feel for the industry - technology degrees aren’t being taken seriously.
Best of luck on your Masters at a publicly funded University. :)
Adam/Greg
Thanks for all your effort to clearify what RCC is and isn’t,about the diploma first, the fact is RCC diploma and other public colleges diploma is the same thing call it OCD or just diploma all is called certificate opon graduation from a two years technologist program its just different name by choice and no industry to my knowledge has ever questioned RCC diploma certificates to that of OCD according to Adams definition, in facts industries accross Ontario and beyond has prefered RCC diploma students to that of so called public colleges because RCC has its history on the industry already.For any school to issue diploma certifactes in any technology field they must get approval from CCT/CTAB and OACETT otherwise the program is not accredited
About the Bachelor of Technology RCC is now issuing to its graduates, the degree is fully consented by the ministry of training and colleges/universities the same body that is reponsible for granting public colleges/universities the right to issue degree upon successfully completion of a four year study,so both RCC’s diploma and degree is aquiped to give its graduates unlimited opportunity be it working or doing future studies.
Adam I dont agree with your statement that most RCC student dont get job in the field,now point of correction no college or university will guarantee its graduates related job upon graduation be it MIT or Harvard U. but RCC goes extra mile to make sure that every graduates gets jobs in the field using different measures. I might agree with you in terms of cost but you know what that is why its called RCC private college off course it has to because Ontario gervernment is not giving them a cent.
A little about me,I graduated with both Bachelor of Technology and Diploma from RCC last Year August 2008, and in less than two weeks i gots a job as a Technical Specialist and after two months i got another offer As RF/Microwave Test Engineer from a different company which i am still with. so Adam as you can see from me and Greg who is completing his masters that as an RCC graduates you could do any thing once your willing to go for it.
Thanks again Adam & Greg
Sunday,
Thanks for chiming in with your opinion.
I have to continue to disagree. An Ontario College Diploma has more recognition and is NOT equivalent to an RCC diploma. You’ll need to provide some references to prove otherwise.
You’re right, RCC has some recognition within the Southern Ontario market, but outside Toronto, it is relatively unknown. Ontario College Diplomas are still better recognized.
You said:
Do you have a reference, or story backing your claim. Where did you hear this? How can you back this statement up?
Many of the RCC grads I knew ended up working alongside high school students who were getting the same salary. One friend described RCC as the biggest mistake he had made in his adult life. I suspect there are other RCC graduates with similar sentiments, but who are too embarrassed to speak up. Here’s an excerpt that suggests this is a common occurrence:
It’s common knowledge that IT / Software / Electronic graduates will be able to find a job upon graduation, and after you’ve incurred the debt to attend a school like RCC you need to take any job you can get. The job guarantee that RCC offers its graduates seems to be an advertisement ploy. I mean, of course you’ll get a job after graduation!! You have to in order to pay your giant loans, but you also might be working an unrelated job alongside high school students who are getting the same salary.
RCC isn’t suited for everyone, but neither are publicly funded institutes, regardless of the path we follow, more education will advance our careers. I suspect that Greg realized that he needed more than an RCC education and thankfully his courses at RCC paved the way to a publicly funded university.
Like you mentioned, people with drive and ambition will succeed regardless of the educational institute they attended. Thanks again for the comment.
Adam,
LOL,You must have some serious loathing towards RCC. Any ways i will try and provide as much references as possible to prove you wrong again.
Before i start i will like to remind you that RCC is a recognized and authorized institution in ontario (view the list here).
You said “An Ontario College Diploma has more recognition and is NOT equivalent to an RCC diploma”. Do you have prove for that or your just adding personal sentiments to it, like i said before its just different name by choice otherwise all is known as college diploma i.e(Diploma). According to this CICIC website.
Those your friends that choose to work alongside with high school student and the Guy you said RCC was the biggest mistake in his adult life,well trust me they dont believe in them selves and people like you (Adam) contribute in limiting there capabilities just because they went to RCC. The statistics you provided was not and can never be general perspective of all graduates irrespective of the school the person graduates from ,Example my friend that finished with only diploma makes way more than that and me with Bachelor from RCC makes substantially more.
Adam you should know the fact,irrespective of where someone got there Diploma or Bachelor you will agree with me that this life is a continous learning even though you might be making millions you still need to upgrade and learn new things or advance the one you know already.Thats why peolpe with Diploma go for Bachelor after some time, and people with Bachelor go for Masters after some time, so i suggest Adam that if you havn’t done that already to go back to one of the public schools for your Bachelor if not Masters.
Hopefully i answered some of your questions and will continue to come back for more…
Sunday Ejikeme
Hi Sunday,
Your last link shows that RCC has been listed as a post secondary school in Canada. Similarly we can find a list that says that Tim Horton’s is a Canadian fast food restaurant - just because RCC is listed doesn’t mean it’s a well recognized school. Nothing has been proven.
I’ll say it again RCC Certificates aren’t equivalent to Ontario College Diplomas or University Degrees, and it appears that a couple Canadian provinces have issues with Yorkville University / RCC Institute of Technology:
I’m an advocate of continuous learning and post secondary education. I think everyone should go to a University or College, but steer clear of the for profit / private institutes like RCC / Yorkville University. Your time and money is better spent in the public realm. If given the choice, I recommend getting a recognized degree or a diploma from a public institute.
Here’s another related thread:
I am so glad you took the time to write this. We have been considering this school for our son and it was actually at the top of our list.
We will be doing more research on this. Anyone with any suggestions on where to go for the best education in IT I would welcome some input.
I did my three year technology diploma from Seneca College and transferred to RCC to obtain my Bachelor of Technology. As for the education curriculum, I did not found any difference between both of them. The difficulty level and the quality of education is roughly the same. Both the institution grants accredited OACETT certified diplomas and degrees. However, RCC Institute of Technology is a private institution with limited recognition in the public and industry sector. Just to give an example, couple of places I went for an interview where I was asked “What is RCC?”
I know for a fact that I would obtain an employment with this degree but the question is what kind of employment and how far can I excel in my career. By considering all this factors, I have decided to go to Lakehead University and obtain a public degree which will open limitless options for me.
@Jeanne,
I’m not sure where the “best” education in IT is, but I would start by looking at well respecting public institutes in the region that your son would like to live / work in. I hope that helps.
Hi again, Adam. I’m surprised it’s been nearly three years since I first wrote to you. I’m sad to say that, whereas I would still happily defend RCC as it was when I attended, it has severely slipped.
The best things it had going for it were its highly compressed program and its technician option. Both have since been removed, and the bid to concentrate on the B.Tech. has failed in my opinion. Now that I have some perspective, the problems that would lead to the college’s decline were already present when I was there - money was mismanaged, the building was rented instead of owned, and when management and ownership changed hands policies were inherited from an already-failed institution (Devry).
Considering that it’s a very old institution, it’s sad to see it go like this. If several key decisions in the late 1990s and early 2000s had been made differently I could easily see the college being far more prosperous than it is now.
One of the popular features of a technologist diploma from RCC was its transferability to an undergraduate Bachelor of Engineering at Lakehead University. When the university decided to also offer a transferral from the B.Tech. to my master’s degree I’m glad that I took the opportunity. However, I don’t see either transfer program lasting much longer. Many of my friends that had graduated RCC and transferred to Lakehead made the analogy of leaping from a sinking ship, and unfortunately I can’t disagree with them.
@Greg,
Thanks for the feedback! I hope your time in Thunder Bay was enjoyable.
Hey thanks for this info. My kid is talking about going here in September for “video game design” I tried the old private college route many years ago and it did not work then either. Maybe he will read this and believe what I have to say. One can only hope !
Hey guys this has been some good input for me as I am attending to RCC in October for Bach. of tech. degree. I want to know overall is this a good place to go. I hear a lot of stuff from people its good and its bad. you got there for 2 yrs 9 months they help you get a job and even get you to work with ups while your attending school there. It seems pretty good. Then you can get your iron ring (or whatever it is) at lakehead university. Can you guys please let me know my uncle and aunt are bothering saying do research because they have a bad feeling there saying the same thing as ADAM said “if it’s too good to be true, it probably is”. Thank you
Hi Brandon,
I expect it will be sometime before the other participants respond.
Anyhow here’s more of my opinion. :)
2 years and 9 months at RCC is significantly more expensive than a publicly funded equivalent (talk to a publicly funded community college). Also, most publicly funded schools allow you to fast track, work through the summers, and finish your program faster (if that’s what appeals to you). Publicly funded colleges also have transfer / articulation agreements with Universities like Lakehead.
If you want an iron ring then why not directly apply to Lakehead University and reduce your educational debt? Have you compared the cost of becoming an engineer through Lakehead University vs. going to RCC then Lakehead? When calculating the costs you might want to consider that: you can’t work through the summers while attending RCC, that publicly funded schools generously award bursaries / scholarships (I got one almost every semester), and that you could also transfer to Lakehead from a publicly funded college.
Graduates of career colleges (like RCC) make roughly the same amount as a high school graduate. Here’s an excerpt from one of my previous comments:
As far as I know RCC does not have an exclusive agreement with UPS. When I went to Seneca, UPS hired students irrespective of what school they attended, they were conveniently located close to York University and Seneca College in Vaughan (above Toronto).
I had a similar experience to Adam. I was also taken in by the school’s recruitment strategies. I attended RCC and graduated.. this was over 10 years ago. I regret ever attending the college. Too many courses and no extra time for anything. Tuition was expensive as hell and its reputation as well as their diplomas aren’t even well recognized.
It’s a private for-profit college and its courses are NOT transferrable to real accredited colleges or universities(assuming you want to upgrade in the future) Without a real undergraduate/bachelor’s degree, you cannot get work visas in other countries(there is a world outside of canada).
Many years later I decided to go attend a real university to upgrade my education. Unfortunately to my dissapointment, my courses and my diploma from RCC were worth nothing and so I didn’t get to transfer over any courses. I had to start all over, however it wasnt all bad. I now had a lot of free time as a uni student even with a full course load and the tuition was also much lower. Upon graduation I felt a great sense of satisfaction as my degree was now recognized all over the world.
I would not recommend attending any private for-profit schools for anyone. This includes cdi college, devry university and the ever popular american univesity of phoenix :P Be smart and stick with public/state schools.